new PCR short forms

[Marc Heyvaert]

Hello,

Some time ago I heard that 5 new forms consisting of 13 movements each would be introduced, one for each style, i.e. Yang, Chen, Sun, Wu (Jian Quan) and Wu (Yu Xiang).

I managed to track down a list movements for the Yang style. Do you know what the status of the other short forms for the other styles is and if there is already some document (written or VCD or whatever) that documents the positions?

I ask because from what I understand the people responsible for these forms in the PCR did invite the families to work with them on this so that the acceptance may actually be better than for some competition routines that we got in the past.

This is the list that I found for the Yang style as taught by Yang Jun (grandson of Yang Zhenduo).

1 Beginning
2 Cloud Hands
3 Single Whip
4 Fist Under Elbow
5 White Crane Lifts Wings
6 Left Brush Knee and Step
7 Hand Strums the Lute
8 High Pat Horse with Palm Thrust
9 Turn Body and Flip Fist Past Body
10 Step Forward, Deflect, Parry, and Punch
11 Step Up and Grasp the Bird’s Tail
12 Cross Hands
13 Closing

Regards

Marc

[stanton]

Marc,

The Beijing Forms are good for sport, health and competition and each person subjective view is OK. I tend to show the Beijing/short forms as an introduction for people who would not otherwise choose the more 'traditional' route to training.

By 'traditional' is meant the post standing, the specific form requirements, the attitudional characteristics which are harder to transmit to a group who just want a 6 week class to attend.
The best benefit for short forms is for elderly, people with some disability, as a potential introduction to 'longer forms' and to see more than just physical movement that looks nice and show off their new pajamas.

WHich ever way one chooses is great. They may not always have the same exact '13' but short enought for 'public learning'.

Just to have every style have 13 forms is odd (some humour here)
but interesting!

[Marc Heyvaert]

Stanton,

I'm also for the traditional approach to training, but this doesn't have to be in conflict with the modern forms.

Also, there is also a long form in the modern curriculum, not only short forms.

As for the 13-forms, they are intended to be for demonstration purposes mainly. The number 13 was of course chosen for its symbolic value. I try to run a small taijiquan research center here (http://www.taiji.be) so I'm interested in the specific movements that they put in these forms.

Incidentally, the short forms have more merit than just being shorter than the long form. The 8-form symmetric, quite technical and you only need very little space to do it. The 16-form features a lot of movements done in 'mirror image'; the 24 is an ideal beginners-form, it is symmetric and the build-up is from easy, square to more complicated and working in the corners.

The 48 was a first attempt to make a combined form, the 42 competition routine has more or less replaced this one. It is quite chalenging to do.

Then you have specific competition routines like for Yang style the 40-form, but those seem to become slowly obsolete.

And there is also the 88-vorm, the modern variation -i.e. 'in the flavour of the 24' of the Yang style long form. I quite like it and I have been so bold as to put pictures of me performing it on the www...

http://www.taiji.be/Fotoboek.htm

Regards

Marc

[soraya]

Hallo Mrc

Spreek jij ook Vlaams of ABN? Wat ik onder traditioneel(gek woord) versta is eigenlijk de lange form van Yang Chen Fu. die weer gemodificeert wordt door hus opvolgelingen. Of Chen style laojia yilu 75 formen die Yang Lu Chan van de Chen familie geleert heeft. Of dat PRECIES hetzelfde blijft is vragelijk maar ik neem aan dat de principes hetzelfde zijn gebleven. Belangrijk is het eind resultaat dat dat is het opbouwne van innerlijke kracht en gezondheid.

Ik heb well een gehoord van de 13 formen maar hebt het nooit gezien. "poststanding" kan door iedere form geoefend worden. Er zijn 2 verschillende korte formen: complete waar repetities worden geschrapt, niet complete die voor demonstraties of introducties voor beginnelingen worden geleert.

Ik vind de 24 Beijing geschikt voor alle levels, het is de level en niet de set. Het is gemakkelijk door de liniaire opbouw van de 1ste 2 blokken, 3de blok ook liniair met kicks en"snake creeps down" athletisch wat moeilijker en pas de 4de blok met richtingen. Er zijk repetities voor nodig om optimall resultaat te kunnen verkrijgen. Dit zijn ook de basis bewegingingen voor iedere stijl

Doei!

[Marc Heyvaert]

Hallo soraya!

Originally posted by soraya
Hallo Mrc

Spreek jij ook Vlaams of ABN?



Ja! Mijn doelstelling met http://www.taiji.be is correcte info over taijiquan te verspreiden in het Nederlands. Ik heb trouwens heel wat bezoekers uit Nederland ook.

And now we'd better continue in English, I think, because this is an English language board after all.

I agree with you about the modern forms. They have their value in the taijiquan landscape and are certainly not inferior to traditional forms per se. But...people who do moder forms often have competition in their mind and I see that they often compromise their taijiquan basics in order to score well on form competitions. I am a member of the board of the Vlaamse Wushu Federatie (VWuF) and I have been Secretary General of the European Wushu Federation (EWuF), so Ihave had the opportunity to see a lot of competitions and I have even judged occasionally. (I even participated myself in some competitions, but that was ages ago :)) I know for a fact that some points are to be had for some things that are perceived as difficult, e.g. lifting your leg at shoulder height for a kick, whereas some stances that are inherently unstable because they are performed lower than what the athlete can reasonably execute are not penalised.

I do moder forms and some traditional ones. Ik like modern forms and I try to teach them in such a way that my students follow the correct principles, that are (should be) the same for both modern and traditional styles.

My question about the 13-forms was purely for research purposes.

Take care

Marc

[stanton]

Agreed.

My only contention is that the modern forms due to extremes in posture (snake creeps down or kicking with toe approaching shoulder) may deemed 'difficult' so I usually change to natural movements (limited high/low) while still enjoying the different Beijing forms (16,24, 42, 48, etc) and their suitability for various age groups. Too many difficult and uncommon patterns can cause the student ot drop out so balancing the form (as in 16 form) can tickle the interest level for th ebetter.

I do enjoy the degree of difficulty or the addition of other styles postures as a good learning tool fo rmodern forms,

[Dr. Paul Lam]

thanks for all input and this discussion. if it is a question, then my answer is that i am not aware of this new set.

however it is now progressing to discussion, i hope you dont mind that i am closing this thread. if you wish you can re start at the tai chi discussion section.