tai chi for arthritis and back pain

[klide]

Dr. Lam, the programs for arthritis and back pain have the same movements, but the order is different. is it because it needs to be different for back pain or have you decided that the new order should be used for both arthritis and back pain. please explain. thank you

[Dr. Paul Lam]

Alan

thanks for an excellent question, you must have spent time on the programs... i am most delighted to have the opportunity to discuss with people who spend time beforehand.

the sequence of Tai Chi for Arthritis is the 12 movements, which is not changed in any way in the Back Pain program. The change is at the starting of reverse side. Let me explain it below:

Tai Chi for Arthritis:
Basic 6 and Advanced 6, then the reverse side of Basic 6 and Advanced 6.

Tai Chi for Back Pain:
Basic 6 to the reverse side of Basic 6, then Advanced 6 and reverse side of Advanced 6.

We don't think there is any difference and benefits and effect of the forms, but it is slightly easier for learners to do it this way. What do you think?

also I would like to add that there is a lot more material in the Back Pain program that is specific for back pain.

My current thinking is to add material and provide free guides to use the existing three programs Tai Chi for Arthritis, Diabetes and Back Pain for various conditions. it took a huge amount of work to create a program, we did try to include other conditiosn at the beginning. I believe these three can cover most medical conditions - with some minor adaptations. I would be most interested in your opinion as a MD. Please feel free to post your opinion here or send to me through service@taichiproductions.com

[soraya]

Paul

TCA is applicable for most conditions according to my experience and mostly i teach TCA the way it is presented on the backpain video. Not only that is is easier to learn, the students also have the feeling that they have accomplished something after a short time.

I have written a little text for TCA and TCD for coronary patients. The form can be the same, the exertion is slightly different for various heart conditions. AN exercise to gentle may not be sufficient, too tough will cause overexertion. For chronic heart failure e.g. TCD with the toe kicks will be more suitable.

[Dr. Paul Lam]

Soraya yes agree, looks like we are thinking of the same direction.

[norm_one]

Hi All

I agree that the three programs can cover a lot of complaints. As an Instructor I teach Yang and Sun Style Short Form (TCA).I realy think the Tai Chi for Arthritis program is great, but I had a problem there I am with my TCA classes and when the word got around I had people asking could they come to my classes but saying I don't have arthritis but I am just geting over a stroke or my friends say it is a great for health and the bigest non arthritis group was from stress related problems. So checking that it was ok with Paul I now advertize my classes Sun Style Short form(TCA). So I agree that the joint programs can cover and improve most things.So if you put the three to-gether I think you have a great package

[Dahlis Roy]

Yes!

I also teach all beginners "Short Form Sun Style" regardless of age as "TCA" ("Tai Chi for All"). They love it with results right away. Yes, 6 basic plus 6 basic reversed then progress. My last class had age range from 32-78! Achieving greater flexiblilty was the common goal of students.

Tai Chi in the Park kept 20 students interested and I added Shibashi (18 Style Tai Chi Qigong) progressing a few each time. This Friday, we will do the entire 18 Style (silently, no coaching) plus much Tai Chi flowing with Dr. Lam's music. They love it and want more!

Thanks, Paul for great programs!

Keep up the excellent work!

Dahlis

[klide]

Originally posted by Dr. Paul Lam
Alan

thanks for an excellent question, you must have spent time on the programs... i am most delighted to have the opportunity to discuss with people who spend time beforehand.

the sequence of Tai Chi for Arthritis is the 12 movements, which is not changed in any way in the Back Pain program. The change is at the starting of reverse side. Let me explain it below:

Tai Chi for Arthritis:
Basic 6 and Advanced 6, then the reverse side of Basic 6 and Advanced 6.

Tai Chi for Back Pain:
Basic 6 to the reverse side of Basic 6, then Advanced 6 and reverse side of Advanced 6.

We don't think there is any difference and benefits and effect of the forms, but it is slightly easier for learners to do it this way. What do you think?

I do think it is probably a little easier to learn. Another question about the two programs. The back pain program doesn't have the 9 forms in that tca part 2. why is that not part of tcback pain?

also I would like to add that there is a lot more material in the Back Pain program that is specific for back pain.

yes that is very helpful for the people with back pain

My current thinking is to add material and provide free guides to use the existing three programs Tai Chi for Arthritis, Diabetes and Back Pain for various conditions. it took a huge amount of work to create a program, we did try to include other conditiosn at the beginning. I believe these three can cover most medical conditions - with some minor adaptations. I would be most interested in your opinion as a MD.

I am a veterinarian who teaches anesthesia at a veterinary school. But I am also interested in acupuncture and wrote a book on acupuncture for animals. Most of the animals I treated with acupuncture were horses who were competing in various horse sports and most of them I treated because of back pain. Do you know of any information on qigong for animals?
I am interested in qigong and tai chi and so I am particularly interested in the Sun style. I have started the 73 forms.

In regard to your question above, I am sure it was a great deal of work to produce your excellant tapes and dvd's. As a teacher and someone trying to learn from them, i want to complilment you on the excellant quality and content of the tapes and videos; they are the best I have seen on this subject.

From your answer and using the tapes and my knowledge, I think that one program would cover the conditions listed for them and many others. There could be a section about the medical uses of tai chi and then the one program for all the conditions. The form is in essence a Sun style short form.
Thank you for your comments, this forum and all the work you have done to advance and teach tai chi and provide a useful treatment method and exercise for many people.
Alan

Please feel free to post your opinion here or send to me through service@taichiproductions.com

[carolinew]

I do Traditional Yang Style Long Form. Because I am now more aware of things like good and bad posture, I only get back pain when I need sleep.

All of the tai chi forms that I have seen demonstrated or read about encourage correct/better posture, and the difference it makes is amazing!

Good luck to any one considering tai chi as a form of exercise to help relieve back pain and maintain flexibility.

[soraya]

Alan

As an MD and exercise physiologist i have the experience that different illnesses need different levels of exertion. Tai Chi is not simply Tai Chi. Sun style TCA is very suitable for arthritis, pregnancy, varicosis, ischemia , backpain etc because it doesn't contain any kicks. Diabetes is different, heart failure is different, in this case kicks or other levels of exertion are needed. Metabolic syndrome, an area where i do research for also needs different levels of exertion in order to achieve post-exercise hypotension effect.

[klide]

Originally posted by soraya
Alan

As an MD and exercise physiologist i have the experience that different illnesses need different levels of exertion. Tai Chi is not simply Tai Chi. Sun style TCA is very suitable for arthritis, pregnancy, varicosis, ischemia , backpain etc because it doesn't contain any kicks. Diabetes is different, heart failure is different, in this case kicks or other levels of exertion are needed. Metabolic syndrome, an area where i do research for also needs different levels of exertion in order to achieve post-exercise hypotension effect.
Soraya
you certainly have the credentials and experience to discuss these issues. i would just like to add that not only do different illnesses require different levels of exertion, they may require or not allow certain types of motion or exertion and also the same illness may cause different degrees of disability and need the exertion level adjusted for their condition and abilities. i am certainly not an expert in tai chi, but it seems to me that the same forms can be done with more or less intensity by doing them sitting or standing, by taking bigger or smaller steps, by reaching more or less far, by crouching deeper or shallower, and by doing it faster or slower. thank you for your comments and i would appreciate if you would correct my thinking, if it needs to be.
thanks

[soraya]

Alan

Thank you for your comments, I think you are already an expert in teaching and Tai Chi. NOthing needs to be corrected. I am involved in a project with many other experts involved. The decision was made for Beijing 16 forms because it was more well-known and official. Political issues also play a great role.

You are fully right on adjustments like more crouching, bending, kicking, performing sitting and standing, etc can be made on just one style and form

[soraya]

Paul Lam conducts instructor courses and he teaches how to modify according to individual condition, e.g. sitting, standing, reaching further, stepping larger etc. This had been my teaching practice for a long time. He has a video"TC in flight". I also travel much and never experienced any jet lag and i have been practicing my little exercises sitting and standing.

[klide]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by soraya
[B]Alan

I am involved in a project with many other experts involved. The decision was made for Beijing 16 forms


Soraya

thank you

i don't know what the Beijing 16 forms is.
is it sun style or yang
is it the yang 24

please clarify
thanks

[soraya]

Beijing 16 forms is Yang style, they are the 1st 2 blocks of the 24 forms. It is easier to learn especially for my group. over 55's, suffer either coronary, hypertension, metabolic syndrome(most of them), chronic heart failure. Since they have never been exposed to either TC or exercise, not enrolled in a current program, the decision has been made for this form. Personally i would have tried Paul's Tai Chi for diabetes. Very nice talking to you it's a real enrichment

[klide]

Originally posted by soraya
Very nice talking to you it's a real enrichment [/B]


thank you and the same to you

[stanton]

All forms have therapeutic effect depending on how one is aware of how a specific (form (or variation) may work. Disease condition also impacts the outcome in conjunction with form.

Prof Zhang Guangde has 3 forms in the Taijizhang (taiji palm) curriculum that has been shown to have hterapeutic effect. The forms are itself variation of taijiquan with the additon of chanssujin/twisting, lowered postures and intricate tui'na patting/slapping with the sequences. One sees the taijiqaun influence with his take on what the posture should entail to affect a specific cure.

Many of the long lived taijiquan masters who lived to be at least 80 did so without the benefit of what we know as medicare/insurance/ and similar toiols to prolong life (pertaining to quality of life).
Even regular taijiquan practice has been know to decrease may diseases/autoimmune conditions from insomnia, MI, arthritis, falls in elderly, to type 1 herpes (tai chi chih-a variation of taijiquan).

[soraya]

Agree with Stanton re. all TC forms. Very interested in TC palm forms you learnt. When i teach TC i always integrate tuina and remedial western massage inbetween, teach very basic techniques to students. we do it before and after the lesson, inbetween when postures become more demanding.

[carolinew]

I find it encouraging that there is room for all kinds of help, Eastern, Western, physicall, mental and chemical. We are all individuals so different things work, or they work in different ways.

Thank you all for being here, and thank you all for your help whenever it comes.